Because you know I just want to all. Three right let's get started
for house tonight so. Eastern commissioners. Call.
This the Armstrong here this person here just because I'm here Mr Galen
here Mr Hall and they are going through right now here Mr Cain are here is there
any more here and Mr Woods here. We have nine actually.
OK. I'm going to do next to put more minutes you would know when you do this in
September one thousand but I think we're going to be up to seventeen minutes for
just
a minute of course cation their. Intent emotion the proof on the minutes
for October seventeenth.
When she got her second. And so any further discussion.
For could. See in the first. It's
strong abstain. This person. Says.
Hi. Mr Gale Oh. Mr. Mr
and I. Your kind are. It's Renoir time and Mr Woods
stay. Now she passes. For AND Thank you
excellent. Right to. Try and. This.
Could be evening I've got a couple communications firsts is we want to welcome
a new member playing commission. Commissioner. Ariane Burson
she has
a. Good background in actually Homeland Security and Emergency
Planning and environmental planning. So. Comes by the way of Florida
and Arizona her current occupation is with the Red Cross as
a disaster program specialist here in Topeka she gets travel to many disasters and
emergencies so we are awfully glad to have her here tonight that means there is no
emergency or disaster taking place so it's always
a good sign. So I just want to welcome welcome. This person Thank you Piers.
My second communication is many of you know there was
a some action at city council last week regarding a re man of the city of faith
a conditional use permit. I just wanted and I was the one upon twenty thirty five
western that will be on our agenda in December. On December
nineteenth and I think what we will do is send back how.
Obviously several of you were not here we have
a new member so what we'd like to do is send out the video link send out the
minutes so not
a summary of what the council direction was for the remaining gets you all the
information. That has transpired really since your meeting.
And make sure that I don't put something together for you to have some some
direction of what they are asking for. In general there just was
a sense of having some more discussion. The one thing that we will not be
advertising is for
a public hearing. It is your prerogative if you decide to take testimony the night
that is up to you in general in the past when things are remanded that the
hearing has been closed you do not have to. Open that up unless you feel there are
different sort of set of circumstances you want to hear from but to do that we
would really need to know that and also it's kind of send out notices not to that
effect so what I would suggest is. That we we send you out
the information for that if you have questions. That we can help answer at the
meeting to let us let's let me know what staff know. What those are so that we can
we can be ready to answer those and provide you even maybe even ahead of time it's
a lot of information. But that that being said we also.
Want to respect the folks the commissioners that had made that were here that night
as well as those that weren't here so we're going to have to inundate you again
with with
a lot of information so apologize in advance but that is sort of the direction that
that is going. If you have any comments or concerns you can feel
free to express those as well tonight. If with any direction but for now that would
be our recommendation is that we proceed with giving you as much information as
possible and having
a discussion of the next agenda without taking testimony OK. So due diligence
question. Should we or should the consensus of the commissioners be
that the public test be taken. I mean you could
open it up that even from protocol perspective should there be time to.
Announce that that's what we're going to do so public can attend if that's if they
so wish or should we. Just by the fact that it's back before the commission assume
that if those are given the opportunity to speak they're going to already be there
because this might be
a protocol question you know if we can pull Mary in to meet the so well and Mary
can certainly. Confirm this but I would say that here if if that's
a decision you want to make and it's made that that night that it would be only
fair to then. Notify people and that which
means you did he would end up delaying we we would come back at the next meeting
and we'd properly advertise it and I'd save more courtesy notices as well as. To
the surrounding. Neighbors that we normally do we will
send out
a note. Courtesy notice to people who have signed up or spoken on this matter in
the past is still
a no it's on the agenda. So OK but that Mary if you have any thoughts you
know just illegally you're not required to entertain any comment and and there has
been an awful lot of comment to date OK And I think that's the key thing unless
there's you. Know
a fictional consensus and commissioners at this point to direct staff otherwise
compel people based on discourse with the council and what I used to form
from I was not present so I can't speak in. The terms of being here one.
At
a time for instance. So here are the ones I can pull. Up
and staffers here for information's chance.
You. And Mr Sharon I think that's why I'm just so you're all comfortable with the
idea usually unless there's something new that you but we all weren't aware of
and I think once we send all that information out to you that spin that's
transpired since then you will be aware of all of the information that has been
submitted as part of the record. So we're not aware of any any thing new that
should open this back up at this point. Thank you very bitter and for which it's
fine. I can track nothing else I believe that
is all I have to like to thank you. But for the record. I wouldn't read
anything into the placement of dispersant and backroom homeland security being
between two words restructuring. Or thought
a commission which would read anything into. OK moving ahead
I did the original comfortless to export to. The. Structure
as
a church that I will be stepping outside for items two and three can but unless it
is the engineer for. Those on.
The other corporations. Can. See.
It here. I don't need. This trouble. Just to
clarify we're talking I mean you record is correct here and we know there's going
to be one that's been pulled from the. Continue to say thank you
letters think it is just your mind that says Casey sixty four you're right and
you're initiated the rezoning R.V.
In the last two months is furnace the largest state stepbrothers and there are five
down can be going from our current president to your district you are one single
family dwelling goes for the fifteen acre property there lies proximity to the
north of self-worth for that street life between southwest gate and south but when
he wrote. The book here proposes forty single theory lots of
city of two point six million units per acre and the salvation with you next on
October eighteenth. That was approved by the city council so it can downsize
a studio and it's just to refresh your memory really the purpose of the earlier era
one county district is to demarcate
a transitional area between urbanized development and
a little arbor which rural areas. Allowing some limited agricultural time uses
once
a subdivision I just was planted here next year using that transitional status and
should be read sound for probably urban zoning classification which is what you're
hearing being asked to be there to marry. The surrounding areas to the north
west and south of there all's not in our one single family going to spirit the
property itself was initially preliminary planted in two thousand and two as Misty
harbors of state subsidies and which is the surrounding developments to the west of
here the rest of the south this is this final plat is based partly that that
division that entire film in fact. He had
a pretty good as it's currently down which is are warning residents over there or
would potentially go out and use it or not accountable with people they only get
their money so it was there and most here permanently is farming an agricultural
use is their office and uses by conditional use for many people and the one that
typically see and this includes me and we neighborhood. Staff is recommending
approval for the very questions we're going to keep. Pushing through the streets.
We've seen this time it's too early to know with which attention to regular.
For the coming to action.
To mean you look from afar the West engineer talking. On behalf of the owner I
don't have
a large presentation on here very questions I'm two or three. And. We
support the staff recommendation for the zoning. And we appreciate their
recommendation. So division plaque coming up next we are in
performance with the city's lane plan that we are here to with the utilities
available. And I think it would be
a good addition to the city. Thank you Mr Cummings. In proportion as for
Mr Claus. I have
a question thank you. OK. From the
discussion of the questions of staff between the stuff. That's at one from the
middle it's the area. Which uses generally what you can actually see the city
it's. So. Natural groove.
For the question of discussion.
So I will I would move that we make them approve the zoning change from our one to
our residential Reserve district to our one single family dwelling District
Commissioner. Most of silicon. So interesting
circa one further discussion. Groups of people.
Mr Woods. History were. Certain are I use Jordan I
Mr Paul Mr Gale I just come on close to the person I use to
Armstrong. Is abstain from the motion passes with
one state. And if you. Can struggle with me to
three it's OK thank you this is the next I do look for you it is
a sign of the final clash for me to see Herbert's estate separators in number five
I'm. Just going to give you
a little background on their farm if we can actually unusually approve this sign of
where. Phase back on January twenty first two thousand and fifteen pounds that
final question ever yet we're on the city council purple. Heart it was delayed by
the outlook area too so it could go to council and it coincided with the Council
for approval of their financing for the fifth Street benefit district. So that
we're bringing in the final plan again community night because after reviewing the
plans for how they're going to face the streets there will be those and determined
that they have all turned their phasing over this final plant so that one
of the streets will be
a temporary area and in excess of five hundred feet which requires
a design variance in planning commissions. And you are so your goal proving to
ninety four when you facing plan for the final question as well as
a variance to the Darien lake then excess of five hundred feet down the. Street
will be extended once they come in the future and build the rest of the locks so
they're OK actually on the forty third Street and it's OK. They still have adequate
turnaround for fire for every movie of the day it is OK with their seasons
acceptable stuff we are able to influence for future use.
So put me in the Senate. Where hearings gone bad from Washington to much more wrong
I don't discuss something the floodplain. Portion of.
There is a theory. Portion probably if you have
a large plane that it is not frightening and there's
a lot they're actually going to be developing that claim for clarity can convey
with inside information. Before looking at that disk.
It's a little funny looks like somebody took
a bite out of the year that they're OK I guess it's an injury that right now cannot
water heat flow. That's been misunderstood most of the troops according
to. OK everyone familiar them with the particulars. Parcel of.
That she's referring to the now we're. Talking to the far right is.
Declining. Just
a minor trainee Fortunately back in the water while the tech been running for
limitations for. A place some limits.
The country any further considerations. It would be up to the responsible.
Property of. Engineers to address it in
a way that if they put. Any further questions for Mr Right.
OK scene and the time allow. For joining with the owner to step forward if they
wish but looks like they feel they've addressed. The US there are questions for
the commissioners to look to the World Cup with me answer.
Any questions of the order of what was. Clearly seen. Any
further discussion. Come.
To the question of competence time and entertain
a motion. To.
Its chairman I I move it to the revised final player to harbor the states of his
number five. And does that include the five hundred four in
variance to the work of the staff that she treated. In
contagion can you. Assure us for the record.
The consensus between you and Mr Wood for this motion. Is there
a second second of your motion second any further discussion.
That. This person I ask about Says I
Mr Gale's Mr Hart I was during I Mr Clean are his ring work
Mr was I don't know if you catch me you know which one I'm standing for you can.
You can. Rely on that you know are these people who put the
kid in with that we're done with the action I don't see
a public hearing or. Two and Three of them will need two hundred and that's one of
the discussion items. In the local in the straw poll to see.
If you know the story. Too.
It is so scary. That. All.
The. Good. They didn't like.
The. Right choice back then
moved to Florida before and. We were.
Stuck with it while he's getting there I'll just interject.
Most of you have seen several reading this will probably be the third cycle of code
amendments we're proposing sort of for the zoning code. So this is relatively
it's a little bit bigger than the other realms because Dan's going to go through
a conversion of seems owing here down down. That's
a little bit larger so we kind of are separate that's separate from the other
cleanup items which might or go over Mr Hall go over after the orders of
the. Right Commissioner Stern MINER This is
a discussion I don't tonight there's no action on this presentation will be
a team process I will present background and design guidelines
Michael talk about signs anyone talk about uses. Start us off though. I
just want to point out some of the outreach efforts that have gone on recently with
this project we convene
a group of local architects on last summer to review the guidelines my commanding
with some sign industry. Folks within the last week and I have to review the sign
on the guidelines also held
a neighborhood information meeting on Nov fourteenth Salon's Monday. We provided
you the notes of that meeting as
a handout and also the hand of that we handed out with wanted for you.
So the first thing I'm going to do is talk about the sort of the what and the why.
And. Get into the rest of the presentation. So just
a little background here the city's initiating an amendment to the regulations that
will convert the existing C five downtown zoning to do you want and eliminate the C
five from the zoning books on both C five and you on our downtown zoning districts
sci fi was created in one thousand nine hundred two the deal on in two thousand and
one of the deal on was created to better encourage mixed use activity downtown
obviously we did not implement Do you want in two thousand one hundred we wouldn't
be talking about it's night but in the interim time there's been some properties
that have reason to do you one. And so do you want is on the books we're not
creating as and zoning district here but we're making some changes to the uses
design guidelines and creating sign standards.
So most of your familiar with the fact that in recent years downtown is seen an
increase in investment and greater overall interest and historic character of the
city and city of Topeka invested five million which is matched by more than two
million and private investment grade streetscape and utility infrastructure along
Kansas Avenue additionally to
a store districts were added to the national risk register in two thousand and
fifteen it's actually three of the two that are referenced here the ones that the
city helped work on and there was another one at eight in Jackson I was at it at
least. Banded in two thousand and fifteen and we also created design guidelines for
the to the store districts this year so what we have now is an elevated design
standard in our historic districts which I'll show you a map here and in
a minute but the historic district is just the portion of the overall C five zone
area so within the historic district we've elevated the design standards to sort of
protect the historic character but outside even across the street where we've got
properties on C five there is no designer view for those properties so my
converting are by. By. Implementing the do you want into
the for replacing the C five with the do you want to bring in long design
guidelines that are compatible with the start character and will help raise the
raise the design standard outside of the. So I touched on this
a little bit with the D one has three components of these matrix and specific use
requirements designed outlines and signs which are actually part of the design
guidelines. A couple mouse here. On the left as part of your one
of the hand outs. That it is the extent of the C five zoning downtown.
So those are the properties that would be zones D one if this project were to be
approved you can see it's basically the core core sort of urban area of downtown
the area that's outlined in blue and them out is the south Kansas Avenue commercial
a store district that's one of the historic districts was talking about so when
we're talking about D one uses the D want to apply is to that entire area that's
shown for C five and we're talking about design guidelines. Would be one does not
apply within that in the area so we've got historic district guidelines that have
been approved within that. Blue that big blue area that will will apply to new
construction or renovations but outside of that blue area the do you want
guidelines will apply. And hopefully this won't confuse you too much but there's
a but there but the sign. Di line standards that are within the De Juan actually do
apply in the blue area as well so. Probably the easiest way to think about it is if
you do have
a sign in that blue area you will look to the historic district guidelines for sort
of. Quality design materials location and you look to the do you want for
size so that the one really has more of the size and the where. Standards in the
historic district design and character and that sort of thing so I will come back
to that again just to make sure that's clear and then the map on the right is the
existing C five zoning and context with the others owing downtown so you can see
a mixture of office and just. Sort of sort of surrounds the C.
Five and so that on and off to any of the talk about uses.
OK And what we kindly did here was primarily just to review the land use matrix and
to make sure these isn't sci fi who are really consistent with what the uses and
the one really consistent with
a sci fi group and as you all know they use matrix categorizing you since as being
allowed to specific use report which is eighteen to twenty five said to require
a conditional use term in or just our I predicted. At the end it's going to women
a the sci fi disappeared from the land use matrix and then all those with
properties that are Zone C.
Five would be converted over to the one. For the most part the uses to do remain
consistent with I'm going to address
a few of the changes that were just that I want to highlight here. The first
we made some clarifications in the specific few standards relating to use which is
growing units on the ground on the main floor that was just what the change was
intended and was intended to do was to encourage just to make sure the excuse
activity is promoted on the ground floor of your buildings downtown it is allowed
septic to N.S.
Which is which were first in
a specific use requirements number two and you know if you have any questions about
any of these they are all the standards are in your package Well tonight. The next
big thing when you address to is establish standards for drive thru drive syllabi
S.
And dry firms are currently permitted in sci fi we created standards mostly
relating to the design and the place in it and where you can put the drive thru the
driver window. Primarily in the estimates period relate to
drive that being to the rear side of the principal building. Secondary and
subordinate to the main building the next thing you ever three surprisingly
a drinking establishment which is your typical bar not
a restaurant but the standard bar requires a C.
Conditional Use permanency five. Weeks are you no intent of encouraging and
promoting downtown as entertainment district we made
a proposal to allow it as allowing by right in the wind so you wouldn't have to
give us U.P.D. To
a bar or attacker. Number four and currently there is
not any provision for having outside display of retail merchandise and the one we
would propose to. Have standards. So then you could have outdoor
display in the wind and set it to those standards we'd be able to do it is
a use that big to standard and what that standard primarily relates to is
allowing enough room for pedestrians to walk by on the street and that the retail
merchandise could only be outside during normal business hours. This thing
really is and I'm not going to really go over this one because I believe you have
seen this before currently microbreweries are allowed but I see in sci fi we are
proposed to allow them study to specific use requirements and be one. And the next
one just to address here or proposing to. Require glitches
assembling too if you want to do a religious symbol in downtown you'd have to get
a P.
. That relates to making sure your store fronts downtown primarily on
Kansas and ave you are. Contained active in uses that are in operation more than
one or two gauge that week. And those are really out of that entire use matrix
those are really the major changes related to the one in C.
Fact districts everything in most of the other uses but as I said they remained
consistent with the one usage remained consistent with sci fi. The
main change here is that sci fi does not have to sign guidelines in the warn that.
You want to pause for any questions up to you Can you. See questions for.
You in the body of the three OK Before we get into the design guidelines we're
going to look at this map again and make sure we understand what we're talking
about here. So it's not on the left
a map in your hand so the deal is that we're going to get I'm going to talk about
only apply to the area outside of that big blue area on that matter. What Mike is
going to talk to you about or the sign standards those will actually apply in the
area so what I'm talking about as far as you know new construction or.
Renovation and it's only those projects that are outside of that that area so
basically the purpose of the guidelines is to provide the regular thirty years that
the regulatory authority to ensure new construction renovation is consistent with
the established urban form of downtown and really the key points there's new
construction around of the nation are not going to apply design guidelines to
projects that once a swap out of
a retail use for retail use and don't change the property of the building that's
not what the guidelines are for it's for changes to properties. Or structures. I'm
. Going to touch on basically three. Three highlights of the guidelines there's
obviously more in there than just these items but these are the ones who are least
the first two that were kind of mention of. The public meeting we had on Monday. So
the first one of the street orientation is guidelines basically they say the
buildings should be built up to the front and to the sidewalks and the front they
should maintain
a. Consistent street wall with the buildings that are on either side of it there
was
a comment about. You know if we can gain you know if we said buildings back we can
gain
a little more. Public space from the sidewalk. You know my my
response was basically that this particular guideline is probably one of the more
important ones that we have designing both C five and do you want zoning have zero
front set backs so the zoning is from encouraging buildings to fill the lots. You
know the we have fairly wide sidewalks we do permits outside dining
on in our street in our sidewalks Eric sidewalk areas so again this is really
probably one of the more important. Standards that we have in our urban downtown is
to maintain that that street law. We don't have a slide but
a question came up about balconies and having balconies on buildings that you know
what hang over the sidewalk basically. The guidelines as they're proposed don't
preclude balconies and do you want they do say they do that he says are written out
to say if you have supports that are going to extend down into the the sidewalk
from that now can
e into the right away that that is not appropriate and that's the. Not the
character of because downtown is to have that kind of situation. You know we also
talked about at that meeting there's ways to design buildings so that you have. You
know at least on your second or third center third stories you can bring the
outside in by having We have an example on campus Avenue
a new info building that has essentially
a wall of windows on the second and third floor that can open completely and
basically bring that inside there bring the outside into the buildings and that's
a way to have your outdoor space slash indoor space without having balconies as an
example. And finally. Talk about architecture in
context I think this is kind of important to the new construction and you want is
not required to implement any particular architectural style we have here
a wide ranging styles of buildings downtown from eight hundred eighty S.
Through mid century modern up to today so the guidelines do not promote any
particular architectural style they're not saying you have to build eight hundred
eighty S. Storefronts now with new construction basically saying that
a new construction should be compatible with the scale for materials of surrounding
structures so basically responding to the context of the of. The surrounding
architecture but not pinning it to
a particular style. So that's guidelines any questions
concerns. OK.
OK guys. As Dan mentioned. The sign industry can
be very small can be for poor people. In design is free and
is his goal is having the real information meaning the one person are all. If
tonight is
a member of that side of history committee and if there are specific technical
questions she might Bill answer those I want to put on the spot Virginia
Baumgartner as been very helpful very much appreciate your time on this so the
purpose of the. Guidelines is to provide for science of procuring traditional
downtown environment and to encourage reasonable standards that balance community
objectives with the needs of businesses and the general public to reduce visual
clutter current science compatible surroundings and to enhance safety keeping in
mind that absent the adoption these design the site guidelines if we didn't make
any change we would be reliant on the standards that are specific to the C five
district and those are very similar.
By the way these are our pages twenty three and twenty three twenty four year
packet. Of the design guidelines.
To be sure you get there so. Where was so absent adoption of signed
guidelines for the for the one described. In absent anything else would be reliant
on the sun science standards for the C. Five the C.
Five sign. Standards are basically the same as the science
standards for. The general commercial zone your have your commercial sewing like C.
For the present for if you think from WANT TO maker six that sixth Ave those
streets so it's really important to have signed standards that are appropriate to
the setting that's really why this is so important.
So in the sign guidelines types of signs are permitted are wall signs. Canopies
mornings more keys projecting signs freestanding signs roof signs and electronic
message centers so the standards for wall signs wall signs are permitted
on the first floor there's no limit to the number of wall signs. But they are
limited on an allocation basis so twenty percent of the exterior wall of the first
floor. Is the limit on the area of wall signs that keeps trying not to exceed one
hundred fifty square feet. So it's above the first floor we'll get to in
a few minutes but limited in number limited in size so as I can because no
one is in more keys they're regulated either as
a wall sign in terms of the area or as
a projecting sign depending on the angle of the sign relative to the face of the
building so if the if you see
a canopy Campion's of course all projection that goes out on the sidewalk if the
face of the canopy has a sign on it that would be treated like it would like
a wall sign would be treated in terms of size limitations if the if this sign is on
the part of the canopy that faces oncoming pedestrian traffic so
a right angle to the face of the building there will be treated like projecting
sign terms of sun angle and terms of size from the tissues. Projecting sides
projecting signs are limited to ten percent of the area of the first floor in one
per stablish minute and. No larger than seventy five square feet of new case.
Free standing signs also known as ground signs as proposed and limited to ten feet
the limit of one huge an area not to exceed one half square foot per lineal foot
not to exceed. The two.
But fifty thousand square feet in the case. Andrew signs are
permitted not to exceed three hundred square feet one roof sign prevailing
buildings over three three floors only and trunk message centers pretty basically
the same or as they are in other districts half the allocation for
a wall sign could be used as an E.M.C.
Truck message center so the comments that we received from stakeholders mainly
at the Neighborhood Commission member also with our discussion with Sun industry
folks. That dressed. Wall
signs above the first floor basically the feedback was too restrictive for major
tenets and large buildings as proposed. Ground signs standards to restrict.
Mainly because of height and size and especially considering the existing signs
that are pretty large and need to replace the signs in the future and we didn't
make the provision specifically famous for murals in the sign guidelines and so the
feedback we got was that we should because your roles or appropriate thing for
downtown Vironment just because you say appropriate and they are approach they
are appropriate they are operating downtown for the common I don't know sort of
discourage that but that was the feedback we got you know me from the show these
a little bit more detail in minutes some of the other comments we got. Is the name
of the building consider a wall sign of some of the older buildings might have
a name on the top and it might be. A car in relief in the material of the building
in some cases
a separate sign good question we didn't really address that specifically but I
think it does need to be addressed clarification of marquis vs can't be in the
window size. Could be anything in time became
a question about something please speak out normally Catherine answer to this like
him so. Wall signs on one fours above the first floor.
So as proposed. On
a building that is three stories or less. You're allowed to have one sign on the
face on the side of
a building. And one person died not to exceed one hundred fifty square feet as
proposed. And if the building let's say a building is six stories you could have
a sign on levels two two through three and
a sign above that. These these buildings are examples of signs above the first
level that are already in Kansas that.
So for buildings with more than three floors as proposed you can have
a building above the third floor one wall sign three or square foot maximum in
addition to the sign that you're allowed to have one force two and three. These
this building on the left is I believe four stories at least four stories in height
the building on the right is much more much taller than that probably ten stories.
The West or energy sign not become my star. But the Western Energy sign I believe
is three hundred square feet of believe the research that we looked at the permit
three or square feet. So the comment was. Whether
we should. Allow more than one sign per level or one sign.
More more signs were permitted one of the observations populations made by this by
the participants in our Information me was that you could have
a small building that only fifty feet wide which are pretty common. I think we even
have some buildings are twenty five feet wide and you're allowed one sign above the
first level the say of a three story building. There are
a lot of money side about the first level you can have
a building that's one hundred. Hundred feet wide one hundred feet in front of you
and has proposed your loved one sign above the first mile. And comment was that
if there is
a major tenant that the building is trying to attract they might demand that they
have
a sign on the House of Bill and. So monument something
freestanding signs as proposed in the standers one minute sign priest three maximum
a half square foot per lineal foot not to exceed fifty square feet so what that
with says that's saying is that if you have. If you have fifty feet of frontage on
a street your sign cannot exceed twenty five square feet if you have hundred fifty
different your sign cannot exceed fifty square feet. Put maximum height in
a minute this type of sign that the sign on the right that photo is
a monument sign. That sign that particular sign estimated height is five feet
estimate sizes for forty square feet. So here are some examples of
trouble guess which question. Is have some guidelines and turn on something.
For example so obviously place of something that size right sidewalk that's in
front of your building so as hers you know for sure there are other there's other
language in our code that prohibits the placement of
a sign in the right of way in the street right of way but no set backs are proposed
some setbacks will be necessary. To avoid traffic conflicts so you wouldn't have
a sign located right at an intersection type thing so these are some examples of
free standing signs this sign is located outside the Historic District sixteen men
beer and that's probably I would say that's about twenty feet tall maybe fifteen or
eighteen feet tall and I. Sure the size maybe forty square feet. This sign was
specifically mentioned in the information meeting this is it that the B.P.
Gas convenience store this sign is about twenty seven feet tall we have
a record of
a permit that was issued it was twenty seven feet was not long ago. And I can't
move this is I have it written down I think it's I think it's forty square feet.
You know excuse me it's one hundred twenty feet.
So this is
a sign for the Ramada downtown that sign is estimated to be. Thirty five or
forty feet tall it could be
a little taller I'm not really sure. The size of the sign I know of it quite cool I
could leave it to the to sign cabinets together exceed three hundred square feet.
If you can see where that's located and that that is in that's already zoned if
there is only one OK. Ok so many questions about freestanding
signs mind signs. I wouldn't touch on the. The mural signs
these photos are not from Topeka these are from Omaha. And one of the participants
of the meeting sent these to me these are examples of. Murals. I think the best
way to address this if we were to accommodate these in our guidelines would be to
get defined in
a certain way so that they wouldn't be confused with other types of wall signs
because an absence of this would probably be a wall sign but but I think there's
a way to do this I think that it just becomes
a question do you want to allow them on any side even well into cover one hundred
percent of the side of the building or eighty percent is should have resigned
limitation. And we haven't gotten
a lot of feedback about these except from one individual mainly so I'd be
interested in what the Planning Commission thinks about neurons. So if there's any
thoughts. I think it's
a good thing to least establish some type of size review board. In the
context that it can't be bigger than something can't be there but maybe there's.
One level of scrutiny for the bureau or the signing of I think there are moral
sorry. But I think if you have
a certain size that it's allowed with some type of simplified view as one thing
what's the one story it's worth some sort once of the exceeds
a certain height the search for Egypt requires the context to do it you know that
point maybe you could put people in porch commission because the. Impact of
something. I think. Example you give there will be one that most people would
favorably. Submit to. You Because picture three Another issue or something I
think it's one of those kind of character creating type of elements in
a downtown area that people tend to look favorably upon so it's my two cents worth
having been involved in this school teacher the. Other thoughts from the
commissioners in the country. Actually I have direct opposite response
that says the giant sign to me. If you push or get into it
there is. To me some reason to differentiate you from any one any other
form cited simply convey sign information is
a sign if someone with. You can i guess you know that that doesn't exist and
hasn't since the twenty's Well that is or. So when I saw others so that's
a great point Mr Armstrong Mr can or I think there are some contextual component in
this case let's make
a judgment here let's say this is historical What you don't know we're doing with
what we do in this is something that was painted in the one nine hundred twenty S.
It could be perceived because the company the longer exists it is kind of looked
upon now and something like or in lieu of the building is occupied by the ball
Myron company and they decide among together they want to paint that wall to look
like in one thousand nine hundred nine that might get reviewed
a little differently than say something that is an artifact that's been. Prepared
to work with any you. Can see. Double
billing There you go. Yeah it's painted on which I think it's
a good. Good observation I think Mr canards point that we have to be careful not to
just create
a box that as long as it fits in there that wanted to OK here we think that there
might be some type of precedence that it is it's. We're minutes ahead of the
historical So I'm sure it's
a piece for that is that the other people for once but to allow all or just
a side of the building to be painted to represent
a gold star in that context to it might require. Further scrutiny admitting that
part of what people hate that's what will work commission to actually have some
additional criteria that puts it. So it's richer and there are there are large
areas in the one there is in this historic district others are not one of the
challenges also is. It's very difficult to regulate the content of the sign.
Within within kind of the legal limitations that we have regulating sign content
so. You know an extreme example would some could if let's say we allowed murals
it would be hard to turn something down deny something disapprove something on the
basis of
a sign being very. Ugly for life or there were. Just.
There so that you know we get into the side you or I think that's where. The I
concur you know I mean there's
a freedom of speech there to whatever but I think that's were we just simply look
at it back of something if if in this case that was originally there they've simply
repainted the original lettering upside going to print to historically that we're
going to them or allow them to do something and they restored it to its original
book. I'm guessing that it will be something that wouldn't walk because they can.
It's the form it's done right to Mr George forty if they come along or they decide
we're going to put signs up there because that's our company what it wanted to see
it I think it probably should be reviewed can textually like we do any other song
we're going to pay to do because the song it becomes
a new place inside as opposed to a historical signed it's now simply
a piece of art because it doesn't represent an existing company it's just simply
what is there are no other laws being broken by the content but. I think there's
obviously an opportunity in there to be you know yes and you know what I'm saying
is that yes will allows any of you to forgive or you to do this kind of the. Kind
of the best of both worlds approach but not just arbitrarily and allow everything
to happen would be an advocate for good. Preserving the best stuff.
Perhaps there's all kinds of complex things think about. The state have
a storefront twenty five feet you can. You know sign that size between like
twenty five feet or so great. People or situations down right.
Thank you so. Just overall. We've been thinking about
how to respond to some of these some of these issues and I think we have some
thoughts about how to do that staff and we can bring those back when we present
this whole thing for for action. On.
The for books or concert commission.
OK. Just
a little bit left here. So the schedule of you to bring this work for
a public hearing on January twenty third. You're going to Landmarks Commission.
In the summer to talk about it they obviously have. Authority over zoning
changes in the historic district. Little might be making
a recommendation to the plank commission. Return or make some revisions post
a new draft. Obviously in advance of that meeting open way and
come back and. So before we move on to the next item or
is there anything else. For all or part or to this.
Senior hesitation I think that is in the English or searching for words I would
just want to give the commission
a few minutes for any other thoughts or concerns here that we are not going to.
Take in
a direction beyond where there isn't any look at least get some feedback for them
either we talked
a little bit about Sun or any other things that were reviewed here that you have
observations are concerned about.
I just want to disclose I I have property in this particular area and I had this on
or either asked to be part of the discussion and for me so the guidelines and I
feel. The other set of the commission were very thoughtful in their concerns and to
all the various parties to get to spaded all the presentations they had and the
events and where we had discussions and kind of get it out. A lot
a lot of the various challenges that come with change in existing zone area to
a Pacific new. Area by my personal observation that
emphasizing on that first four that we. Encourage more retail
industry and restaurant you know activity type use in the D one district is good
for downtown and I think that my compliments to the staff for ensuring that the
property rights would be respected and that. People aren't being forced to change
something overnight if they currently have office space in that area right now if
that person moves out of they make some minor changes they can still continue to
have office space as long as can textually there within the kind of guidelines that
you guys have administratively always kind of looked at these with so I appreciate
that but I do think in the long run that it's future development is considered in
the downtown continues to grow and hopefully successfully become
a bigger economic engine in our community these will kind of help encourage. Its
long term preservation and its long term consistent kind of economic growth not.
The big given flows we've suffered downtown in the past so I know the landmarks
commission has been very thoughtful about how they've reviewed some of the
challenges that come before them and it seems like every one of them is different
that has new criteria this in conjunction with it I think it will indeed as well as
we could hope it works so. I pretty all the effort you guys have put into it this
didn't happen overnight and I think we've met dozen times over the last year and
a half or so. And you can see obviously with the variations I'm able to shove it
that it's it's taken
a lot of considerations away appreciate everything. If you have any other
any other cultural products. Seen. I'm going to
proceed to. Discussion right. Too.
Thank you. Dave so. In
your music for the group a group B. An hour of Group C.
Of these miscellaneous amendments to sections of the code so.
It could be. There or soon after presenting those we made some
observations ourselves and staff arson in any fashion was presented and we have
simplified that and this basically artist manufacturing if you think of someone who
makes. I used to know someone arose from where it was
a business that made jams and jellies out of a small space that's that's
a typical person manufacturing type use so new manufacturers wouldn't touch wooden
toys on
a small scale have it tipped over manufacturing type use so what is being proposed
is that. On a reduced scale of
a certain type of light manufacturing would be allowed in certain zoning districts
that were today the only way we can treat it is as manufacturing. The reason we
would do this is because there are many areas older areas of Topeka where it's
a great way to view
a building and add some vibrancy to an area no two comes to mind and even parts of
. The main part of downtown are the princes of downtown. Cargo
containers I'm going to explain in
a little more detail that was also discussed earlier meeting and we've made some
revisions to that that we think are our positive fences I want to discuss that in
detail. The possibility of mixed use districts just quickly. Currently
we have the X.
Districts in excuse districts and the the way. The chapter is is
framed that those are only appropriate to be implemented traditional neighborhoods
. The way that's been done is when there's a neighborhood plan that has been
a way to implement the neighborhood plan to apply some kind of zoning that allows.
A mix
a mix of uses commercial residential but based on performance objectives so its
base its roots of performance oriented zoning district. This would allow them to be
used in areas that are designated as an excuse on the future land use map that's
part of the land use and growth management plan it's good we implement
a mix of uses and without having to do
a plan you development. Condition of signs I have one slide on that that's
kind of straight forward. With that I'll move on to cargo containers so.
The way the cargo containers is proposed the regulations are proposed that they
would be committed. On not only on
a temporary basis very very limited timeframe but also on
a permanent basis under certain standards and. Not in every
district not for every use the car in this case be permitted for
institutional and multifamily residential use in the residential. Residential
Boston institutional districts and for all uses in the commercial and the
university medical services mixed use and D.
Districts in accordance with following standards no want more than one cargo
container. There is
a limit on is size of cargo container the biggest current taters health care that I
seen hard twenty by forty or twenty by forty five which is
a little under former square feet. He would not be allowed to.
Inhibit parking in circulation they cannot use for signage they would not be
permitted in a front or side yard setback. They should not be readily visible from
a street right of way that's probably one of the more important parts of this. Or
the fronts of other buildings so. There are some cases where that's probably not
possible though would you possible for people to use
a car. So there is some allowance in what is proposed here that if they are placed
a certain way if they are screened or if they're painted to match or be very
similar to the building so they blend in then those to be permitted. Some people
even internally some people that's why are we allowing for these these are not
something that we really like to see there really are very very prevalent and I
don't think it's just in to peak
a lot of people use knees in some cases they're using them for
a good purpose I know in the case of. Tire shops for example they have
a lot of used tires that they need to dispose of and store for
a short amount of time so it will use the shipping containers for storing tires. So
. I guess one approach would be to not permit them at all which is how it currently
is another approach would be to control him in
a way that that is acceptable in this is really proposing the second approach so I
just have
a few examples this is one that's on lawmaker twenty eight hundred block I want to
maker and the car containers located behind
a building but it's also very visible from the front of another building.
That's what it looks like it's right next to the building it's painted virtually
the same color as the back of the building it's very difficult to see it. Under the
proposed standards this would be. Here's another example is the north peak of
zoning as Acts one land use as
a thrift store you can see where it's located it's very visible from two streets.
That's what it looks like not very attractive. Under the standards as
proposed this would not be permitted it would have to be relocated onsite painted
or at the screen. And then it would be permitted. There's another
example from north to the. Next one's own district this is
a warehouse distribution storage facility. Actually that's
not that's not correct this is actually a thrift store like
a secondhand store with a lot of storage becomes like
a storage facility but it's not. So you can see where it's located it's located
right in front step back. The next one district has
a variable setbacks based on performance objectives performance standards but under
the proposed standards this would not mean it would not be permitted it's very
intrusive it's out in front it doesn't blend with the building I think it even has
a sign on it but this could probably be modified to meet the standards if it was
screened or if it was painted to blend with the building was told it. Was to show
that there. Are they are. They are not so you're telling me these
are conforming that should. Not conform to that you know conform to current code
they're. Basically illegal. And some of these we have outstanding cases
on were that were processing.
So he questions whether containers comments so I'm curious here please find.
Me There was a case a few years ago you probably recall we have
a cargo container very soon someone to that except fifty times more attractive
probably outside of school outside of heights education center we have an early
childhood program there and which other special ed program there are down adaptive
tribes so for children with disabilities and their trucks that are so best we built
for them depending on what their disability is that are stored in that container of
a container was paid to the exact same color of the first thing of the building the
side of the building yesterday. But we had an issue arise where I
don't know who it was with one of the city. You know staff members come out and
tell us that we have to have
a change it would be in violation of code and I think it turned out. If you
recall and I'm talking you know I did so we ended up putting
a fence around the. Change of
a little bit. From what I understand that actually is
it wasn't out of compliance in the first place correct is there some kind of
exemption for schools.
That's what ended up happening was it was
a violation their car corrected OK because they got screwed it up getting screened
here and there actually we use that as
a model. For what can happen in in these in these standards so
that if you're between this if you can see it from the street which I think you
could. The next the next thing to do would be there's
a screen it was actually did some very nice fencing I believe or look like fencing
or
a wall that blended very very well with the building so now that it's it's green so
that would be compliance. With the. You
you really keep Not every These are movable first of all so.
Second of all. These cases are going to be case by case in
here you know there really isn't any room on the property to put it behind the if
you go back to the aerial to put it behind building as you can see so the next but
it is appears to be in
a front set back which is also one of our no no's so probably in this case
setting it up against the building. Parallel to the to the front of that building
and blending in with the building or if they'd been more screening and or screening
it actually much like what you just described over at the school would be the would
be the. Would be the way to go in this case so move
back put up against
a building and screen it. So they don't see it from the street. So
it's curious or move it further and not have it at all which which I'm not and I
guess I would you know I probably have to say I agree with your recommendation to
try to control the type of containers that we have as opposed to not having them
there are going to be businesses from being into the operating. Efficiently I was
curious and you probably just noticed
a little bit of the old rub anyone with nasty questions like what I thought was
probably the most pure beautiful thing you could ever want to do we were going to
give it to troops it was to children. Who could be one step before we could change
your story make history. You cannot control.
What bothers me about contain this you know it's
a business model that apparently can't afford to. Stay in their building provided
the physical building editions for stories of their time is on. Me
This is just like
a cheap way out. Of Horrors. Understand why they're doing
it. There's better ways to fight it seems like he's
a source of food issues for separation. Of this materials or something.
To do with brand building. The building he couldn't do there.
Well again he'd be allowed in accessory building for and also technically
this is not
a building. Under the building code this is not. It is not
certified because it's not on
a foundation of dozens doesn't have structural characteristics it qualifies as
a building. So I think I think Mike put his finger on
it as we we've come across so many They're ubiquitous they are part
of much of our landscape now and we found out many are for good purposes for good
reasons others are for because there's no.
Good business reasons and others there's just no forethought in. Expanding the
building we don't get any tax. Revenue off of us cargo container. But extra square
footage of
a building you know the community would and it would look better so word we're
somewhat in the middle here of saying don't we don't want these there and we can't
go out there and say oh that's a good perfect that's
a good reason to have because you have trikes for. For children versus you have
a bunch of old furniture that nobody wants. So I don't want to we don't want to
legislate that we do
a legislator how. Or lease. Or. Do
. We we are
taking the approach we want to. Be the place and the manner
of which those are those are seen. I think Mr Woods and.
Make excellent points here and I don't I guess I would hope that it's the policy
of our city government that no one can just place one of these out there without
some type of approve any time. And at that point so technically any of these that
are out there outside of story building materials on
a job site or something that's been built the only kind of legal reason I could see
something of it occurring or temporary deliver of materials. Like I could see
a container for tires they dropped it off for the day what's on the news tomorrow
but those are the kind of under one business conditions what I what I've seen and
sharing are someone's acquired these because I know you can get
a couple and they placed them in the easiest place they could put them in and they
work great because you can secure things in them and they're not easily accessed
despite some people without water. So they provide
a cheap story which almost in every case becomes contrary to building because it
isn't and couldn't build something in the same condition so they're doing it
outside and I guess I I would ask first that it be the policy of the commission
staff to make sure the current. Current laws are even
a pill and that we wouldn't do something contrary to what we're trying to do
elsewhere and. Trying to make sure we resolve some of these visual challenges our
community has with other various things that we're doing that we don't just
arbitrarily start allowing this to happen I think there's an opportunity for
storage space like this to be used in areas where people have out of sight out of
mind areas and it might be more than the industrial parks or what have you but if
you may return to that first camp where you gave
a tire shop and I don't mean to single them out that was the example you gave me
one. Here's why I would. I would initially be against this if you go back to your
aerial that. I know exactly where this location is on the pic and on any of the
businesses or the context that's
a major shopping center. And yes that cargo container it's painted to patch the
back of the building but it's still just
a big cargo container sitting out on the lot but now the people that consider store
they're looking at
a cargo container which one time to attend those things are just allowed to sit
there for us to they're not kept flexibilty. Nor are they I guess what nor do we
probably enforce anything else upon them like we do and will build those cars.
Sound asleep safety and everything just kind of looked at its. You know like
a Little Foot Locker really wallet is something to put
a lock on. I would be very leery of. Just allowing it to be there
painted if there were and. If this was
a stand alone walk on the edge of town an industrial park I could easily see there
be like a. You know a permit that allows you something like this for
a time one year you know until they can develop
a business to justify an addition or something like they might put it out and out
it will be till they can afford to build close to completion and I think there are
some context I would be. Challenge to to to look at this it's been acceptable
use even though it's a tire shop it's right next to
a. Standard one retail shopping center that's got cotton shops.
Drug stores and. It's trying to balance the reality of the problem even
consider. Just just about right observation from what was what was proposed
so on
a side note if you'll allow me I do think it's cool opportunity if if we find
a place we allow it it's on the condition that they have an agreement with the Arts
Commission that it has to be painted like
a beer. Is thinking aloud fun with its dorky but if you get any of it visible from
the street and we do find a context whether it's an industrial park. Have
a requirement. It's there or it's the. Church the requirement.
That's my two cents Thank you. For the idea if I may I think.
We struggled with this Mike can tell you how much time we burned thinking through
these standards we've tried to use examples in the community that we think or if
you will good role models for these standards. Mr Woods touched on.
This one in particular. This is when
a little bit further to try and blended in and we so we wrote that into
the current draft we could just as well leave off the last sentence of the
standards here and still require screening. From adjacent
fronts of properties as well as
a street so we sighted on the air. This could
work and that's kind of what we wanted feedback on does this work. And I know
take
a connection here one of the. Three of you thought you could search the question of
just people I work for so I. Get the.
Point you leave me to the punch with regard to good time constraints of
usage. Related related to these that. It.
Using it to cover
a gap in time when you have not. Gotten to go to a new building extend
a building and do do something like that is one thing using it as
a permanent solution is is entirely something different.
And perhaps when you do you know move on and find
a suitable property or build your own I understand there's you know there's
obviously expense issues with that but. It cuts both ways.
So I would just echo that. Stroke. I actually wish they had to.
Do all the tires that he exposed in the what's going on actually in one of the
container. You see of course the.
So is there a problem now that consistency
a good actor like. Five or one went to action to screen but
somebody who is not as good as citizen has
a school district. Ignore what the city St Is that part of it.
Jordan you know I mean the rule is you can't have more than thirty days period
anywhere so we're going from that to something that says you can have
past thirty days and and to go and we have seen some some
good examples of where they they may blend in or they just don't really. You
don't see them from the streets and I think that's current where we resigned it is
that there are many there are cargo containers that you will never see that are out
there. And that's good in our opinion that's good so how do we so how do we
institute that rule across the board and that's kind of what we came back with as
well some people. You're doing it in instances and Mike doesn't have all the the
pictures here there are there are others. You just he won't see it because they are
behind the building out of sight out of mind does that really enter into our.
Why we have this this rule. I don't I don't believe it is
so. I know I should have instances when I have to.
See these places through places that were your. Lights down the middle or what
within their power of being basically uses our space. And I think that's
a challenge we may run with some of this and that they are not beans good looking
for her and so that might be something and think about what we just allow them
without inspection which I know we're asking for imply some type of action we have
. You know
a license to process but I guess I'm anxious because they can readily and easily be
used as
a knock rights base and yet I took they can't be. There that is correct Oh don't
misunderstand I'm I'm Those are the sort of things we would and we and we do right
now you can occupy those are not habitable spaces so that's something we would
enforce currently without with or without these regulations. It's just where we are
trying with the with the standards regulate the placement of them not so much the
use the use they are not to be used other than for storage purpose I would digress
it could be done right spacious homes that play for me through the normal
inspections and power rather than place it can plug quite space and inspect it it's
the. Last seen creative use of part of containers to prove Apple's place that would
want to discourage that if somebody comes up with
a. Something that meets all those criteria I understand right now there is no there
is nothing that determines whether it is or isn't being used for something that is
technically not legally supposed to. Yes it's not
a building so if we don't we don't allow its use other than for for storage
purposes. So. What
do. You know there was one other situation that one makes you aware of that we
you know that we have those in the commercial areas we also have a situation in
a neighborhood residential neighborhood that has quite
a large storage container that pops up. Time to time.
And it may or may not be for construction projects so one of the things that we've
. We've researched looked into is seen. The pods
moving containers that people use for legitimate purposes putting your stuff in to
move it get picked up move it some some other place and you're moving to. Those
those or I believe generally less than the two hundred square feet and I think from
a size perspective I think the size and time perspective we have narrowed that
into
a thirty day up to two hundred square feet anywhere before it was come as big as
you are for thirty days so that if you would wake up and saw your neighbor with
with
a four hundred square foot cargo container in the driveway probably wouldn't get
a call or somebody we're going to call down here. So we're going to so that was one
change we've made it more restrictive where you can have it anywhere if you have
a smaller smaller size that's OK If you want to go bigger then we're going to tell
you you cannot. Go anywhere that is that is your
prerogative from the residential areas for that size. So that was one other point I
just want to make. But it's tough it's tough issue of this is something we have.
So. Many. Hours have gone.
Thank you Mr Paul would like me to move on yes please keep me going to take
a. Look at so the next one is defenseless and there are couple of pieces to
this. Three really. One is that we would clarify
fences should be made of normal materials typical materials the kind you could buy
from
a vendor so you wouldn't be able to use salvaged materials. Can even get on
the times but something some of the types of materials we see are all good pallets
old doors. Sheet metal things like that right now the term normal
materials was used in the definition but it's not in the standards themselves so
that's what that paragraph is intended to address and I part for me to tell you
which page on the package this is from the fence section and it's the last forty
percent section the paragraph one. Gets people that it should be either one is the
page or the four that we're we've got
a diagram. Every. Part of this. This
doesn't really change anything anything that we're doing currently this is how
we've been regulating fences. This just clarifies because it's it's
a very confusing thing for the general public it's confusing for stepped up the
diagram that's why we have the diagram so that's what that addresses so that's not
really I wouldn't call that a substantive change it's just
a clarification and making the code easier to understand. So let me go to the
second paragraph it's
a paragraph or two in the last page of the fence section you know like to go back
to me. To the. Sly's we could.
All get so in the interest of being dressed in hysterics
and making Topeka more hysterically pleasing.
This this paragraph is really intended to address this type of issue. This site is
medical services district parking. Fences is six feet high have galvanized chain
weak it's not
a very attractive fence right now it doesn't look that bad it's relatively new but
these tended to tear it over time and rust and they just look bad over time and so
what we're proposing with these standards is in
a one I want to see one C two S and the districts. That.
That fences that are fence is still not let me read this carefully because it's
confusing but this is around parking in storage was constructed within the building
back
a long street rights of way not including alleys should be constructed of high quality
materials such as decorative block brick stone decorative precast concrete or
ornament ornamental metal. Other fences that might be approved within the setback.
That's OK there are some restrictions here as shown such as they have to be black
why no. Chain link or other normal materials but you need to be set back
a minimum of four feet with
a landscape in front of them with plants in front of them to mitigate the. Impact
of the fence. It's only show you another photo. This property zone see for.
This is
a six foot galvanized chain link fence that's pretty old started kind of tip
a little bit this is around a story. This is
a C four district this would not be affected by what's proposed. And the reason
that's not being proposed this time is this affects
a lot of property owners this is something that really needs
a little bit more oversight by the public if we were going to address this in the
C. Four districts but fences like this in the C. One and C.
Two districts. And like I said when I used to mess districts would be restricted
in the mixed use districts there are performance standards that dress fancy very
fashion and so this doesn't say things specific about Texas fix it this refers to
that section. So to be clear what you're saying at this time you're not you're not
getting into your seat for something they're simply voting no they want to
correct. Correct. And I do think this
this draft these
a little more betting there are sort of certain uses that rely on on fences such as
schools that are in our districts primarily but there might be some that are and so
these districts that we've mentioned. So we need to take
a little closer look at that as
a question let's say you were to apply that require that you could even want to get
to see for you wouldn't necessarily force this person move their friends today.
That's correct to be
a legal mind can form you right so only at the time that particular business or
proper You are SO IT'S TOO placed there ought to be to do and that would be to
replace the material or the posts or some major component but then they're hoping
to. Reach that to conform or. OK so this fence here
permitted meets the standards that would does
a legal mind conforming offense if this would were to be adopted.
OK. So the next next one this is not
a real big change to the code we have
a section in our in our sign code now that says if
a sign is not in good condition. The property owner can be required to remove or or
fix the signs so it is in good condition this is just an example of what we're
talking about. Or condition and so what we've done is just added some way in which
the fines better what that means.
So with that all move on the next item. I really spoke about this but Freeman
libraries we've got some language about free libraries. That's not because we think
there's
a big concern about the libraries we want to control or restrict But right now
they're doing are dressed in the code there are. Issues in other communities
where people have complained about the libraries right now someone complain about
it. I'm not sure how you answer that complaint because it's not really addressed so
what we've proposed it's language that would allow them but define what they are
going on with their size and scale and kind of depends on the use. When those are
at record are they done with the context of someone. With some authorization and
stole them and thus responsible for their upkeep. Or if it falls
to the property owner based on words I would say that the you know why you could
some private property yet they can't set with
a set back correct correct right away excuse me the right way and the right of way
it's tantamount to
a to your mailbox that you would you know I think there are exactly and I think as
long as they meet the. Report it's things and well. Try to
get ahead of the game here we haven't had any complaints so just be very honest we
just have are very aware of other communities where this has blown up. And the
people in it would complain because. We think it's going to have been.
Lost
a little. Part of. What's going to great lengths
and taken this to extremes and so we. Just want to get ahead of the game there.
So that also I have some good thing that has come out lately with the
blessings box I think is what it's called and so they're allowing people to play I
don't know can't Goodson things for people to take from agree with that fall under
that as well for. Your nation
boxes. I just think the idea would be this same and that's what.
I don't know if we could be so I mean honestly so much like signs we can be generic
a knob to allow a structure to be used for that sort of whether it's
a book or came good or whatever as long as it stays within certain parameters so I
think we can write that in to the to the draft or let you see it next to. That's
what I assume you would want that that's I was just asking OK I would need for
somebody to complain about somebody offering. Can good have green beans
and they're upset that they would be going to get
a container because they couldn't have one at home so I was just asking the
question. It
was not OK OK having
a quick look at. It To be clear Mr Hall One clarification of the the
language or
a narrative that you have included still or it's simply the beginnings of your
outline your context of this I'm going to guess you'll put something about it keep
it care and maintenance or other responsibilities or right now that's the context
of all you keep their cool so I guess I mean I want to make sure we have some type
of just saying they're allowed without any pretext or. Size height I'm not to get
into the government of the free libraries but at some point when you start down you
give an inch take a mile when we're promoting
a good thing we all sudden created. Something we lost control of the.
Wonders of it that happened you know the intent here is to is to set
a. Community standard on me is whether how big they can be
maintenance always comes down to I mean that's not something. That's part of goes
into property maintenance code it's not his own income OK so we don't get into
maintenance. Through it all fairness here.
So thank you for entertaining these drafts. Which we discussed
in the. Yes all I have questions or comments
thank you for your diligence and thank you for entertaining our observation it's
the. State
a little longer than normal today but I think you brought some. Concerns forward
that are worthy of getting out and making sure we got something there the sense of
the two but. I think your party. Aware of certain challenges that come with.
Appreciate if you do. Any other. Two or
more through the agenda items finders or anything else that needs to be for you in
your. Journey for the doing. Just share that is
have we will have
a. Of the very forward and. Some some Christmas presents
for you next month it is but it is we have about six items all zoning related
so. Brand overnight bag your purse.
Well again I'm sure I would welcome this person to the right commission pretty
joyous thank you but we found your first evening to be entertaining and. And
productive So with that I'd be entertained
a motion to adjourn. In the further discussion at
all in favor say aye aye same send
a post with your thank you. That was sent. To make me say that which I think is
a just you know you. Are. OK
And we do normally.